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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2015 16:07:15 GMT -5
They don't want teams to so obviously tank, and for good reason. You should at least have to field a team that has the proper players to hit the minimum, I would also like it to be extended that you have to hit the minimum without cap held, but I doubt that would happen. Teams tanking that hard is pretty bad imo. edit: at least this is my interpretation of why this rule is made The reason I don't like this rule isn't because I want to do it, but because it's too difficult to really assess. How much is too much? Where's the line? What if a team decides to overpay 4 players by 1.5-2 million instead? Also, isn't this all going to get really tricky with the new free agency rules? What if two teams want to bid on some scrub and the bidding war gets out of hand? |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2015 16:08:31 GMT -5
It is a combination of both that will lead towards a resigning. Pretty much the easiest way to put it. NHL stats set the area for where a person should be resigned, VHL contracts determine it further. Okay. I am so glad we are changing the way free agency works because I have no clue what is fair value for any of my players. Basically I throw out some random low ball number and then see what comes back and decide if I can make that work with my cap or not. |
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Post by Corey Scott on Mar 31, 2015 16:10:39 GMT -5
They don't want teams to so obviously tank, and for good reason. You should at least have to field a team that has the proper players to hit the minimum, I would also like it to be extended that you have to hit the minimum without cap held, but I doubt that would happen. Teams tanking that hard is pretty bad imo. edit: at least this is my interpretation of why this rule is made The reason I don't like this rule isn't because I want to do it, but because it's too difficult to really assess. How much is too much? Where's the line? What if a team decides to overpay 4 players by 1.5-2 million instead? Also, isn't this all going to get really tricky with the new free agency rules? What if two teams want to bid on some scrub and the bidding war gets out of hand? They put this in for one year deals only based off what I read, so I really don't see a bidding war happening that would be on one year deals. Anyone worth a one year bidding war is not going to be a 4th line scrub, they are going to be a top 6/top 4 player (f/d respectively) at which point it will be obvious the bidding isn't against the spirit of the process. Also, this looks like it is in place for over the top offers. Not 1.5-2 million but rather 3+ million. If I go and offer John Scott a 1 year 4 million dollar deal, you know it is complete garbage. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2015 16:12:17 GMT -5
Yeah, I don't know. I think the rule is too vague, but I guess I could be wrong. Just seems like the new bidding system should fix any of these issues.
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Post by Corey Scott on Mar 31, 2015 16:12:48 GMT -5
It is a combination of both that will lead towards a resigning. Pretty much the easiest way to put it. NHL stats set the area for where a person should be resigned, VHL contracts determine it further. Okay. I am so glad we are changing the way free agency works because I have no clue what is fair value for any of my players. Basically I throw out some random low ball number and then see what comes back and decide if I can make that work with my cap or not. It has been this way since I started here 3+ years ago. It isn't anything knew. They have always stated that NHL contracts are a good guideline (and hence NHL play because those contracts are based off that). They have also always used previous VHL signigns as something else to use in negotiations like they should. I can usually tell 1 year plus beforehand where my players will sign to within a range of 1 million, usually within a range of 500k. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2015 16:14:17 GMT -5
I didn't say it was new, I just said I don't have the slightest clue how to value my guys. Moot point though since it's being changed. I'll just keep offering guys contracts one by one based on their value to my team and eventually I'll run out of cap room and the rest can go to UFA.
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Post by Buffalo Sabres on Mar 31, 2015 16:26:38 GMT -5
Joel, all our ratings are based off of nhl play thus why we look at nhl stats for assessing contracts but the vhl has a different marketplace based on money and such and potential bidding thus we must use vhl contracts for comparing.
Yes its a vague rule but we have heard rumblings of guys tanking that said to others they plan to reach the floor by offering ridiculous deals to do so.
If price runs up cause of bidding we have no intention of stopping a deal. This is solely in place for those that are blatantly trying to reach the floor by signing ridiculous deals.
Chances are now that this rule is in place and that we will be paying attention to the floor that this won't ever have to be used.
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Post by Andre Deblois on Mar 31, 2015 21:05:55 GMT -5
I'll try to explain it, hopefully I don't muddle up the picture any more then it already is.
When the agents look at contract offers that are sent to us, we try to find players that have recently signed new contracts with comparable production in an effort to establish what the market value is for the player in question.
As this is an NHL re-rate league and ratings are based on NHL production, we look to find players with comparable NHL stats. If your guy has 20g-20a-40pts he will likely be rated the same as another 20g, 40pts player next year, so we would like to see your guy sign a similar contract. That's why we use NHL stats.
Once we've established our comparable players, we look at what those players signed for in the VHLto try to set the market value for your player.
We use VHL contracts rather then NHL contracts for a couple of reasons.
For one, the economy of the VHL is very different from the NHL. No team has internal budgets, so there is no limitations on how much we can spend, unlike in the NHL. We also have a drastically different one-way/two-way salary structure.
Secondly, in the NHL, various aspects come into play that affect the value of a player's contract, compared to the VHL, where we factor in very little other then pure production. For example, Chris Kunitz is fine signing a deal with a 3.85 cap hit to keep playing with Sidney Crosby, but as a player with a 0.82ppg average over the last three years, he would probably command close to double that in the VHL.
So we use NHL stats to find comparables because the ratings are based on NHL stats and we use VHL contracts to compare players because our league economy is drastically different from the NHL.
Hope this helps.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2015 10:46:07 GMT -5
It somewhat helps. I'm glad I won't have to do the math with the new system though to be honest.
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Post by Edmonton Oilers on Apr 1, 2015 11:14:08 GMT -5
It somewhat helps. I'm glad I won't have to do the math with the new system though to be honest. the new system helps the way we deal with unrestricted free agency. theres still a negotiation process during the year and doing the research is part of that process when you send in offers when trying to resign guys... |
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