To Winnipeg GM: Continuation of Discussion
May 30, 2016 4:24:20 GMT -5
Matthew Tanti, Toronto Maple Leafs, and 1 more like this
Post by Tampa Bay Lightning on May 30, 2016 4:24:20 GMT -5
I felt an actual post was required, and it gives you a chance to respond.
The fact that the Bruins "didn't use analytics" doesn't mean analytics don't work or it was due to the fact that they specifically ignored
analytics directly caused them to win the cup. They won the cup partially due to having built a team that was analytically dominant.
stats.hockeyanalysis.com/teamstats.php?disp=1&db=200811&sit=5v5&sort=GFPCT&sortdir=DESC
From 2008-2011, the team "they built without using analytics" was third in the league in CF%. They were dominant possession-wise.
They won the cup in 2011 heavily due to the team built was dominant statistically.
(Well, they also received favourable officiating, and you can probably attribute that to team building as well, employing an important official's son is good business.)
The Boston core at the time was absolutely destroying the league analytically. Their most important players (analytically) were Bergeron and Chara. Chara was acquired the year as you said Benning came into the office in 2006, what role he played i will not speculate, but he certainly had nothing to do with Bergeron.
I'm just going to assume "Fla" is Mike Gillis. Gillis became GM in 2008. Lucic and Marchand were drafted in 2006, so you can't
possibly blame Gillis for not drafting those 2 players. The Hamilton and Seguin picks came as a result of the Maple leafs offer-sheeting Phil Kessel. That was certainly a team that did not employ analytics, but instead valued "truculence"
Assuming Jim Benning was a big part of drafting in Boston, this is his track record:
2006 : Kessel, Alexandrov, Lucic, Marchand, Bodnarchuk, Nelson -> this was certainly a very good draft.
2007: Zach Hamill (ahead of Logan Couture), Tommy Cross, Denis Reul, Alain Goulet, Radim Ostricil, Jordan Knackstedt
total NHL games played: 23. There was a top 10 pick.
2008: Joe Colborne, Sauve, Hutchinson, Arniel, Tremblay, Goggin.
Colborne has played 233 NHL games but behind him in the first round there were 4 other NHL players that has played more games than
Colborne. (4 NHL players and Luca Sbisa, but I refuse to acknoledge him as a NHL player)
2009: Jordan Caron, Ryan Button, Lane MacDermiad, Tyler Randell, Ben Sexton
2010: Seguin, Jared Knight, Ryan Spooner, Cunningham, Ftorek, McIntyre, Chudinov, Trotman
Ryan Spooner is legit, Seguin was a #2 pick, but otherwise not much else there.
2011: Hamilton, Khoklachev, Camara, Ferlin, O'Gara, Volden --> nothing after the first round
Other than the top 8 pick they were gifted, not much there.
2012: Subban, Gryzelck, Griffth, Payne, Benning (HIS OWN SON), Hargrove ---> Give this draft another 2 years, but so far no impact on the team.
Guess what happens in 2014: Benning leaves, and they immediately draft Pastrnak who is immediately impactful and is definitely a top 20-30 player in that draft.
While Benning had "input" in Boston drafting (and i'm going to give you 2006 even though he just came on) they've produced 3 legit NHL players not drafted in the first round (and only 1 after 2006), and they've blown 1 top 10 pick. This could easily be interpreted as the longer Jim Benning has been involved with drafting, the worse the drafting gets.
"However benning is doing what he feels is the right way to go"
This man is in charge of a multi-million dollar business. Real businesses aren't run how the "manager feels is the right way." Real businesses are run with data and evidence. The fact that he came out and said explicitly he's running the business by "feel" is embarassing outright. If I did my job doing "what I felt was right" instead of using data and evidence, I would leave a trail of bodies behind.
So Winnipeg, if you're going to continuously defend the current Canuck management, put some stakes behind it.
I'm not asking you to do much. No trades, no forced draft picks, nothing.
If you really believe in his "methodology", just do one thing:
Re-sign Luca Sbisa to his NHL deal next season.
You inherited Luca Sbisa on your roster. You have defended the acquisition before, and the player. You have not traded him.
I have shat on this more than I shat in my actual toilet. His contract is up next season.
If you believe in Jim Benning and his acquitisions/team building, when contract re-signings start next season, offer him the 3.6mil/year for 3 year deal he got in the NHL. If he's as good as the management you believe so much in is, he should be worth paying for right?
Benning also been on record saying that the Bruins didn't use analytics and won a cup. Nuff said
The fact that the Bruins "didn't use analytics" doesn't mean analytics don't work or it was due to the fact that they specifically ignored
analytics directly caused them to win the cup. They won the cup partially due to having built a team that was analytically dominant.
stats.hockeyanalysis.com/teamstats.php?disp=1&db=200811&sit=5v5&sort=GFPCT&sortdir=DESC
From 2008-2011, the team "they built without using analytics" was third in the league in CF%. They were dominant possession-wise.
They won the cup in 2011 heavily due to the team built was dominant statistically.
(Well, they also received favourable officiating, and you can probably attribute that to team building as well, employing an important official's son is good business.)
The Boston core at the time was absolutely destroying the league analytically. Their most important players (analytically) were Bergeron and Chara. Chara was acquired the year as you said Benning came into the office in 2006, what role he played i will not speculate, but he certainly had nothing to do with Bergeron.
"In 2006 he became the assistant GM of the Bruins. Under his tenure the Bruins have drafted Milan Lucic, Brad Marchand, Joe Colbourne, Tyler Seguin and Dougie Hamilton. So I think the guy has a pretty damn good track record. he is 10 times the gm fla is"
I'm just going to assume "Fla" is Mike Gillis. Gillis became GM in 2008. Lucic and Marchand were drafted in 2006, so you can't
possibly blame Gillis for not drafting those 2 players. The Hamilton and Seguin picks came as a result of the Maple leafs offer-sheeting Phil Kessel. That was certainly a team that did not employ analytics, but instead valued "truculence"
Assuming Jim Benning was a big part of drafting in Boston, this is his track record:
2006 : Kessel, Alexandrov, Lucic, Marchand, Bodnarchuk, Nelson -> this was certainly a very good draft.
2007: Zach Hamill (ahead of Logan Couture), Tommy Cross, Denis Reul, Alain Goulet, Radim Ostricil, Jordan Knackstedt
total NHL games played: 23. There was a top 10 pick.
2008: Joe Colborne, Sauve, Hutchinson, Arniel, Tremblay, Goggin.
Colborne has played 233 NHL games but behind him in the first round there were 4 other NHL players that has played more games than
Colborne. (4 NHL players and Luca Sbisa, but I refuse to acknoledge him as a NHL player)
2009: Jordan Caron, Ryan Button, Lane MacDermiad, Tyler Randell, Ben Sexton
2010: Seguin, Jared Knight, Ryan Spooner, Cunningham, Ftorek, McIntyre, Chudinov, Trotman
Ryan Spooner is legit, Seguin was a #2 pick, but otherwise not much else there.
2011: Hamilton, Khoklachev, Camara, Ferlin, O'Gara, Volden --> nothing after the first round
Other than the top 8 pick they were gifted, not much there.
2012: Subban, Gryzelck, Griffth, Payne, Benning (HIS OWN SON), Hargrove ---> Give this draft another 2 years, but so far no impact on the team.
Guess what happens in 2014: Benning leaves, and they immediately draft Pastrnak who is immediately impactful and is definitely a top 20-30 player in that draft.
While Benning had "input" in Boston drafting (and i'm going to give you 2006 even though he just came on) they've produced 3 legit NHL players not drafted in the first round (and only 1 after 2006), and they've blown 1 top 10 pick. This could easily be interpreted as the longer Jim Benning has been involved with drafting, the worse the drafting gets.
"However benning is doing what he feels is the right way to go"
This man is in charge of a multi-million dollar business. Real businesses aren't run how the "manager feels is the right way." Real businesses are run with data and evidence. The fact that he came out and said explicitly he's running the business by "feel" is embarassing outright. If I did my job doing "what I felt was right" instead of using data and evidence, I would leave a trail of bodies behind.
So Winnipeg, if you're going to continuously defend the current Canuck management, put some stakes behind it.
I'm not asking you to do much. No trades, no forced draft picks, nothing.
If you really believe in his "methodology", just do one thing:
Re-sign Luca Sbisa to his NHL deal next season.
You inherited Luca Sbisa on your roster. You have defended the acquisition before, and the player. You have not traded him.
I have shat on this more than I shat in my actual toilet. His contract is up next season.
If you believe in Jim Benning and his acquitisions/team building, when contract re-signings start next season, offer him the 3.6mil/year for 3 year deal he got in the NHL. If he's as good as the management you believe so much in is, he should be worth paying for right?
